Nikole Hannah-Jones joined MSNBC’s Ali Velshi on his Saturday present to debate the criticism and banning of The 1619 Challenge. Naturally, Hannah-Jones merely dismissed “a lot of the criticism” as “not respectable” as she continued to assert all she desires to do is train the total story of American historical past.

On that criticism, Velshi requested, “I used to be asking you if you got here out with The 1619 Challenge on the New York Occasions Journal, I do not assume you can’ve foreseen how a lot criticism you had been going to get. Good or dangerous that it occurred?”

Hannah-Jones noticed each positives and negatives within the consideration, “I imply, you realize it is combined. I believe a lot of the criticism is just not respectable critique, it is not coming from individuals who have engaged with the concepts of the venture or the work. However on the identical time, the extra they discuss it simply really helps unfold the message, proper?”

Velshi agreed “we discover this with each guide, there’s the not considerate stuff that’s clearly put ahead by any person who hasn’t learn the guide, does not perceive what it is about,” however puzzled, “Have you ever engaged with individuals who do not like what you are making an attempt to do, or making an attempt to say? However they are often debated?”

Hannah-Jones claimed that she has, “So as an example, Professor Leslie Harris, revealed a piece in Politico, type of critiquing a few of our claims and saying I would not have mentioned it that strongly. I’ve invited her to my class at Howard, and he or she’s talked about her critiques. 

Not seeing the distinction between a college and a highschool, Hannah-Jones added “To say that I disagree, I would not say it that approach, is totally different from saying youngsters needs to be uncovered to this. These concepts do not even belong within the classroom, we should always attempt to ban these books.”

What Hannah-Jones didn’t say is that Harris’s massive downside was the declare that slavery was a number one explanation for the Revolutionary Warfare. That is the declare critics from skilled historians to Republican politicians are probably to quote when arguing the venture shouldn’t be taught in colleges. It much less about disagreeing with Hannah-Jones’s opinion and extra that she is objectively incorrect and but, the Hulu documentary continues to make the declare. 

Velshi then tried convey Important Race Principle into the dialogue, “And actually, and that has change into couched on this different factor that may be a misrepresentation about Important Race Principle. There’s been a variety of speak about this catchall phrase, and the truth that kids are studying overly subtle issues at school that can make them really feel like they had been to blame for slavery. You have needed to cope with this since the primary day. You weren’t doing any such factor; you had been saying let us take a look at American historical past in a broader context.”

She wasn’t. She claimed that this nation fought for independence to be able to keep slavery. That may be a slender declare that enables her declare:

Completely, we should always simply name the anti-Important Race Principle marketing campaign what it’s, it is a propaganda marketing campaign, proper? It was stoking division for political acquire… It says that we had been constructed on a system of anti-blackness and racism, and that these buildings are structured into our society

Besides, the declare of the Revolution being fought over slavery is fake, which implies “we had been constructed on a system of anti-blackness and racism” can be false and that Hannah-Jones’s thesis crumbles like a home of playing cards.

This phase was sponsored by Chevron

Here’s a transcript for the February 4 present:

MSNBC Velshi

2/4/2023

9:51 PM ET 

ALI VELSHI: I used to be asking you if you got here out with The 1619 Challenge on the New York Occasions Journal, I do not assume you can’ve foreseen how a lot criticism you had been going to get. Good or dangerous that it occurred? 

NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES: I imply, you realize it is combined. I believe a lot of the criticism is just not respectable critique, it is not coming from individuals who have engaged with the concepts of the venture or the work. However on the identical time, the extra they discuss it simply really helps unfold the message, proper? 

I needed us to know the date 1619, to take that date out of obscurity and definitely it’s not an obscure date anymore. 

VELSHI: What does considerate critique of what you have carried out seem like? As a result of there’s – and we discover this with each book– there’s the not considerate stuff that’s clearly put ahead by any person who hasn’t learn the guide, does not perceive what it is about. Have you ever engaged with individuals who do not like what you are making an attempt to do, or making an attempt to say? However they are often debated? 

HANNAH-JONES: Actually, I imply The 1619 Challenge is making an argument, it is making the argument about American historical past, about American origins, about the position of slavery, and its legacy. And you’ll agree with the argument or disagree with the argument, I imply, I believe that’s the objective of journalism and writing on this approach. 

It’s to not merely say these are my beliefs, and everybody has to imagine them, however to say these concepts are value contemplating and debating. So as an example, Professor Leslie Harris, revealed a piece in Politico, type of critiquing a few of our claims and saying I would not have mentioned it that strongly. I’ve invited her to my class at Howard, and he or she’s talked about her critiques. 

So there is definitely legitimate critique of any bold venture, however that is not what we’re speaking about, proper? To say that I disagree, I would not say it that approach, is totally different from saying youngsters needs to be uncovered to this. These concepts do not even belong within the classroom, we should always attempt to ban these books. 

VELSHI: And actually, and that has change into couched on this different factor that may be a misrepresentation about Important Race Principle. There’s been a variety of speak about this catchall phrase, and the truth that kids are studying overly subtle issues at school that can make them really feel like they had been to blame for slavery. 

You have needed to cope with this since the primary day. You weren’t doing any such factor, you had been saying let us take a look at American historical past in a broader context. 

HANNAH-JONES: Completely, we should always simply name the anti-Important Race Principle marketing campaign what it’s, it is a propaganda marketing campaign, proper? It was stoking division for political acquire. As a result of clearly, each Important Race Principle, the Precise Important Race concept, and the 1619 Challenge should not speaking about people, they’re speaking about techniques. It is the alternative of that. 

So it is not saying any youngster, or any individual is accountable for issues she or he did not do. It says that we had been constructed on a system of anti-blackness and racism, and that these buildings are structured into our society. I also– I’ve a 12-year-old youngster, she’s again there, and I need my youngster to be taught subtle and complex and nuanced understanding of all issues. That is really why I ship her to high school.